Curse

Swinging Fists · Nov 18, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

This concept of "agro" is silly anyway.

IMO it is working perfectly fine.

Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No.

Aggro it once and the gloves come off.

It is perfectly realistic.

Actually... Yes. I have experienced a mob aggro when they were half way between my "aggro bubble" and the edge of the radar. So much for the "danger zone" being the gray part - it seems to be most of the radar at times.

shardfenix · Nov 18, 2006, 10:41 AM // 10:41

It's not a bug. It's working just the way they programmed it.

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 18, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

The new AI is'nt really that smart. If you(or more likely Zhed the Rambo Horse) over aggro's simply lure a mob pull back and string them out, and pick off the stragglers. It makes it a lot easier now than it ever was.

thelessa · Nov 18, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

I remember a while back when they made a point of fixing the "chase you forever feature." Have they changed their mind about it?

Amity and Truth · Nov 18, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I've allways got to laugh when people bring up the "realism" argument. It's a fantasy game for gods sake! We have speaking dragons, Monks can ressurect dead people and heal them in seconds. Elementalists could summon a second Ice Age if they wanted to and you people are still talking about realism? Seriously, that argument doesn't hold ANY strength.

One argument does have a strength though. It's the argument that GuildWars is a game. A game is supposed to make fun. If a mechanism, despite how "realistic" it may be, is hampering with the fun in a game. It's a bad mechanism. It's as simple as that. Sometimes a step back might be worth more than a hundred steps forwards.
We were once tweaking AI on a Neverwinter Server. The AI went from "moo" to "hey cool". It was reacting appropiately as a player would have. It became a real remorseless killer and that is where the problem started. People started to hate the AI, despite how sophisticated it was. We had to revert the parts which were working as intended, simply because they caused frustration amongst our players. Yes i know that it is a smaller scenario than it is with GuildWars.
But this AI is also causing a lot of frustration amongst the players. The whole permanent aggro bug made me kick out rebirth which once was a great spell for PVE. Why even bring it? You're either running away until the end of time or whenever you get close to someone dead the mobs insta aggro you even though your aggrorange isn't even remotely close to them. So why bring res if the endresult will be a wipe anyways?

MegaMouse · Nov 18, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

I do beieve that this is part of the anti-farming code doing it's job a bit too well. I dont like to fight every battle on occasions but now it seems that once you aggro something it will go after you until you either Kill it or you die. This is cool with me as it can make the farmers job a lot tougher, but it makes the game a little harder for thse of us actualy trying to play the game. A-Net should tone he aggro down a bit or make it so that if the anti-farming code is activated put so many enemies in the map that it will be almost impossible to clear it out.

Mega Mouse

birdfoot · Nov 18, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Honestly speaking, the AI has never been realistic. After all the changes done to how AI is behaving now, the AI still hasn't become more realistic either. While I do not have any major issues with the current AI, it's (perhaps luckily) because I didn't have much expectations of it ever since I started GW. I think realism in AI is important; but by "realism", I'm referring to the extent of how convincing the mobs behave (big, mean, stupid-looking mobs shouldn't be running). If we have a danger zone defined by the aggro bubble and it's valid for mobs to keep chasing us at 1 aggro bubble away, then I must say there's no strategy behind GW's aggroing mechanics. Mobs chasing players from one end of the zone to the other is perhaps realism, but not a realistic implementation. After all, realisticly, if a player group ran so far away from the mob group, the latter would possibly have lost track of the player group.

To those that felt AI is 'buggy', I think it's quite valid. It doesn't look like any form of improvement to me. Most of the players had already been used to how the old AI works. I don't quite recall any complaints on the old AI (though it doesn't provide much of a personality to different mobs), so why did it needed a change? It's quite abrupt, so it's no surprise many have an issue with it. In fact, I think it's good that it's been voiced out.

Cow Tale · Nov 18, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

lol jees u guys can be mean! i kinda like the new ai, make the game more challenging! only thing i dont like is the scar eater is really hard for me to kill now.

prism2525 · Nov 18, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.

Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out".
Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine.
Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn.

Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it.

Not entirely true. I've had such occasions while chest running in talus chute with the avicara wise-asses. I LET them cast fragility/phantom pain on me so then (I thought) they'd break aggro with a good sprint but no, they kept running after me even after i had them out of my RADAR.

EDIT: This has been around since BEFORE the AI update.

Enchanted Warrior · Nov 18, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

"Run Forest Run!" Track and field events have been added to GW. LOL Personally I think this is the result of anti farming codes running amok.

CyberNigma · Nov 18, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Yeah if they made it more realistic (given that it's all fantasy and make-believe anyways), then it would actually be easier. You would have mobs of different types (not really in Torment but elsewhere since they are all on the same side) fighting each other more. You wouldn't necessarily see the lone Heretic in a group of Griffons just because he's a mesmer and can stop farming. If it was realistic, these disparate species would be fighting each other, meaning less mobs if you just sit and wait. That would be pretty stupid. It would also be pretty boring if you had to stop every now and then to oil your armour and sharpen your weapon to keep it up to par. I understand that osme people want realism. It's just usually that they play "simulators" or some sort that's more realistic. I'd like to see a realistic Spear of Torment or Grawl somewhere. :-) lol some people remind me of the Grey Giants walking around with their heads knocked off...

Ellador Nae · Nov 18, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I thought this was intentional. Something about stopping runners...

Made me curse a helluvalot too. Like when I was running with my decoy henchies - I left them with the last mob, so I could scurry away. I saw them fighting it out just as I lost them on my radar, still running, and thought I was safe. Ya, right, the 'realistic' mobs won beat the hench and came for me from OFF my radar. I know programming the AI is a tough cookie, but.. c'mon.

Enchanted Warrior · Nov 18, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

I've allways got to laugh when people bring up the "realism" argument. It's a fantasy game for gods sake! We have speaking dragons, Monks can ressurect dead people and heal them in seconds. Elementalists could summon a second Ice Age if they wanted to and you people are still talking about realism? Seriously, that argument doesn't hold ANY strength.

"That's not fair!!!"
"You keep saying that, I wonder what your basis for comparison is.."

Jen Connely/David Bowie in the movie "Labyrinth"

Str0b0 · Nov 18, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

I wonder how many knew that monsters chase you only forever when they are activated spell against your henchmen/hero and he teleport to you alive when your party get resurrected.

Cynn survive enough long that resurrection take place when 7 other party members are "knocked out".
Monster want to use spell against Cynn but suddenly Cynn is teleported to Resurrection Shrine.
Entire monster group now want chase your party because one from their monsters want use spell against Cynn.

Problem comes that they chase your party forever when they activate spell/skill but not yet reached their target and casted it.

One Word.....WRONG! This is not the only instance of a monster chasing you an obscene distance. Any aggro can result in this sudden lock on your party that causes them to chase you from one end of a zone to another, literally. The thing is it is inconsistent with little or no behavioral trigger to constitute the chase. This would indicate a bug, a random occurence caused by conflicting instructions within the AI script. You likely have to met two or more completely seperate criteria in the AI script for it to happen but since we don't know what behaviors are coded into the script there is no way to tell.

The chase is not the only thing that is goony about the AI. Not only will monsters chase you they will also run from you to the other end of the zone even if you don't give chase. Monks will frequently charge your group during the initial aggro. The entire AI is just buggy as hell. They say that it reacts no differently than the original Prophecies script, except in regard to AoE damage. I have a hard time believing this though. Never once in prophecies, or factions for that matter, have I ever seen AI react in such a bizarre manner. I hope they figure it out soon. I know that they have a lot on their plate and the AI is going to be a lot of code to review.

Young Hero · Nov 18, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Do unaggrevated mobs come and hit you for no reason if you stay well out of its agro radius? No.

Yep they do. Go bubble a spirit and the mob comes rushing in from far far away.

Thargor · Nov 18, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

This whole argument seems to have 3 sides. Side 1 hates the AI because they might actually have to kill something on the way to the boss they are farming for a ridiculously overpriced green item.
Side 2 seems to hate the AI because they evidently are not smart enough to adjust to it and find a way to beat it.
Side 3 seems to have no real problem with the AI besides a minor annoyance now and then that is probably their own fault for a less than optimal pull or an overzealous henchie.
Its a game, its not supposed to be realistic. Some people need to quit crying about not being able to get thru an area with only killing the one boss they are after. Some people need to stop crying and learn to adjust to the changes. And the rest of us really don't have a problem. I personally see more problem with the Ai on henchies and heros than I do on the monsters.

Sooty · Nov 18, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Many people are assuming that this has been a deliberate change to the ai which is working as the devs intended. I'm not so sure. There wasn't anything about this in the update notes for instance (i know they don't put everything in there but this would be a pretty big thing to leave out). Also there are sprint skills and skills like rebirth, which someone mentioned already, in the game for a reason. If they are rendered useless by this behaviour I think this simply lends weight to the theory that this was unintended. Imo we should first find out if this was indeed unintended in which case this is a bug and should therefore be fixed.

It's not a case of simply deal with it and move on. If every second skill in PVE failed to activate for some reason, I doubt you'd be saying well it makes it more realistic so just learn to deal with it noobs. You'd be a bit upset, pointing out the bug and expecting a fix. I'm sure once anet sees a few threads like this one, they will take a look at it and say hey something isn't quite right here, we'll get on that right away. That's all we're asking.

WasAGuest · Nov 19, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thargor

This whole argument seems to have 3 sides. Side 1 hates the AI because they might actually have to kill something on the way to the boss they are farming for a ridiculously overpriced green item.
Side 2 seems to hate the AI because they evidently are not smart enough to adjust to it and find a way to beat it.
Side 3 seems to have no real problem with the AI besides a minor annoyance now and then that is probably their own fault for a less than optimal pull or an overzealous henchie.

Side 4 (me standing alone it seems) hates the AI cause I find it boring having all mobs now act like circus clowns prefering running about over fighting. I wanna fight, I want something to hit me back so hard, I'm thrown to the ground and knocked back 10 feet for my viewing pleasure. I don't wanna chase Forest Gump and fan club across the map asking "will you fight with me?"

Trvth Jvstice · Nov 19, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I'm pretty sure that when people here say "realistic" when referring to enemy ai, they mean the enemy is behaving more like a group controlled by real people.

Apparently the new ai isn't much of a problem, since you see so many people here that have beaten Nightfall with the new ai. Many people say that it's Too easy.

Enchanted Warrior · Nov 19, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

One Word.....WRONG! This is not the only instance of a monster chasing you an obscene distance. Any aggro can result in this sudden lock on your party that causes them to chase you from one end of a zone to another, literally. The thing is it is inconsistent with little or no behavioral trigger to constitute the chase. This would indicate a bug, a random occurence caused by conflicting instructions within the AI script. You likely have to met two or more completely seperate criteria in the AI script for it to happen but since we don't know what behaviors are coded into the script there is no way to tell.

The chase is not the only thing that is goony about the AI. Not only will monsters chase you they will also run from you to the other end of the zone even if you don't give chase. Monks will frequently charge your group during the initial aggro. The entire AI is just buggy as hell. They say that it reacts no differently than the original Prophecies script, except in regard to AoE damage. I have a hard time believing this though. Never once in prophecies, or factions for that matter, have I ever seen AI react in such a bizarre manner. I hope they figure it out soon. I know that they have a lot on their plate and the AI is going to be a lot of code to review.

Last word I read/heard from Gaile was the chasing etc, is working as intended, and was broken prior to the update. I wouldn't look for a fix anytime soon, if at all.